(Part 1) Financial Geeks Analyzing Changes in TCG Markets w/ @firstedition_pokemoncards & @rocpokemon
Kind: captions
Language: en
oh yeah you know connor i want to tell you your
displays look so dope like you really beefed it
up yeah i will i also like yeah so i picked up a
couple from pogo dreamer and obviously but also
like i used to sit over there but i put a desk
on this side of the room so that people could
actually see my stuff instead of syracuse
basketball and a light so i tried i tried
it looks good have any of you guys been
participating in the eevee day today sylveon man
all you need are seven hearts after this i'm gonna
get my last heart so i can finally get a sylveon
all right open yeah i haven't
opened pokemon go in like
months i feel like i don't know i
like ever like it alerts me all the
time like the notifications come up
and i want to play and then i'm like
i don't i don't know what i'm i'm not doing this
right now i don't know it just like escapes me i
forget oh i gotcha i know but it should be it's
evie yeah it's some special eevee thing right
um no it is it's all eevee stuff today so yeah
there's like a [ __ ] ton of eevees i caught my
first shiny so i'm turning i'm turning the
shiny into sylveon i just gotta you know
remember to finish the things because i think
like to get to evolve evie to sylveon you need
70 hearts which is a [ __ ] ton of hearts if you
remember like when you have your buddy right yeah
did you play when it first came out i thought
you just named them something else and then
so that was that was the hack that was from
the cartoon that when it first came out you
could name them the flurry on the vaporeon and
the jolteon after the ones on the show and they
would evolve into those specific ones but now
yeah it only worked once though yeah like like
now like now i think i can't remember if it's
umbreon or espeon it's probably espeon but
like for example you need to walk 10 kilometers
with your buddy and then evolve them at night
and then you get and then you get the espeon
you can get jolteon vaporeon and flareon those
are just like randos so you can randomly evolve
and you can kind of get them wherever but if you
want like the special ones um uh leafeon umbreon
you have to do some stuff you have to you have
to you know but anyways yeah it's random back
i did the naming hack that's how i go i think
a flareon or whatever i don't remember it's a
lot easier to play now than when it first came
out when you had no idea was going on because you
couldn't see the id's you had to like hack i used
to have to like hack into like some weird website
and like and i also used to spoof my location too
so yeah yeah so it was almost like so it's like
playing the game it was almost like playing the
gameboy game but on your phone so like are
you getting travel so i would go i would
make it simulate all the way to like england or
australia so you can go click catch the specific
region ones oh yeah but then people got banned
for that the company that used it got so i never
got so they would just shadow ban you so you
couldn't catch anything for like five minutes
but the company who created that app got sued
for five million dollars because they basically
took the server and just hopped off like just
made like a duplicate and then made a way to go
back into it and they were spoofing the system um
wow i had no idea that's why i was so slow because
everyone was trying to cheat the system and all
those other companies were making it so you could
fake where you were but they were
also slowing down the other servers
see so that's what was happening because i
left the game super quick because of those
stupid servers always you know failing super slow
low tides were shitty they also like it just like
exploded like they had no idea that it was gonna
yeah they just took over that's her overload yeah
did you guys ever play the harry potter version
like i tried it night one yeah i tried it and then
i just don't like staring at
my phone while i'm outside
it's hard it's like i don't know i just like it's
hard for me to play sometimes you know honestly i
can understand that yeah i can understand that 100
like like at this point the only reason i do it is
because i have like a monthly or no a daily goal
for steps just to keep active because i cuz like
i you know we spend so much time sitting down
at a desk right i'm like no i'm gonna like i'm
gonna be better about him and be more deliberate
so i'm thinking okay if i'm walking i might as
well also beef up my stats like i'm at level 29
now which isn't much but you know step by step
well y'all this is great um before you got
on connor james and i we were talking about
how like one of these days if and when
we ever go to a card show or comic-con
we should do the full the
full cosplay so i'm expecting
it would be hilarious it would be so funny oh my
god i was literally i'm not gonna lie i was just
watching pokemon movie 2000 or whatever i think
i might like try to like watch them all like
over time just for the heck of it because i don't
know how many of the pokemon movies i've seen but
i'm really still trying to figure out there's
so many there's there's so many and i'm still
trying to figure out if this coco movie or i guess
like in english and secrets of the jungle if it's
ever actually going to come out in the united
states and if they're gonna do it in theaters
or if they're just gonna like release it online um
i don't know how they've done like recent releases
i don't really remember but i could see them
just like doing it with netflix and releasing it
straight out you mean even slater had that same
issue with their movie too they were trying to
figure out how to get it in because the theaters
were just there was no point going to theaters so
yeah demonstrator came out with a movie so they
like a live action no it's a car it's a part of
the no it's the anime they broke all the records
of was it spirited away had all the records in
japan it broke are you serious yeah there's a good
show i've only seen season one though i don't know
if season two is out or not not yet but i haven't
been so much into it but the movie looked cool
so the article anything that gets live action is
awful turns to [ __ ] completely complete [ __ ]
good old air that that that started it all right
and then and then there was death note that came
out which was william defoe didn't even read
the manga and he played the shimigami and i'm
just like how how do you even understand the
role you're playing if you've never read it or
watched it like it was mind-blowing to me and
it was terrible it was so it's like it's like
any time they try to live action a video game
movie or video game into a movie or an anime
into a live action show so that's why like
is this pokemon show gonna be terrible or is
it gonna actually work i hope not i'm hoping it's
good because i have cards i want to sell that are
hopefully gonna be based off the show yeah it'll
be two or three years from now probably so perfect
the only anime movies that i like that are
based off shows are those 50-minute recaps
oh yeah when you go back oh yeah that those are
the only well no i do like the um like spirited
away in those movies those actual movies were well
but yeah i just watched that a couple of weeks ago
again for the first time in a long time it's
so good i mean it's like it's beautiful like
the animation's amazing it's hard to believe
it's like 20 years old gosh honestly i couldn't
agree with you more princess mononoke that
was a good one too um what's the other ones
that are all of a sudden like not coming to mind
but spirited way is definitely a really good one
now i'm going to have to try and see how i can uh
watch this demon slayer movie i have no idea who
liked it online somewhere so you can always watch
it for free online yeah that's how anime works
i was gonna check crunchyroll so but you're
right bootleg that's true they might have it
now i know netflix didn't yeah i think
netflix had season one of demon slayer
they're not gonna season two though i don't
i think crunchyroll but didn't you see the uh
didn't crunchy roll by funimation or
other way around for like one no um uh
sony bought crunchyroll yup
oh [ __ ] right yeah i forgot
i never like read the press release my buddy told
me um which is interesting i never have had a
crunchyroll subscription but i've always like been
this close to pulling the trigger because there's
i mean it is nice to like have it all in easy
access in one place and not have to like bootleg
it and airplay it to it or like whatever but
it's uh yeah i've never decided to pay for it
well i mean i think i don't pay for it
either but i have funimation and then so
i one of my co-workers he's got crunchyroll
so we just swap you know nice share
fbi i don't actually do that that's fbi agent
that's not what i do i you know i heard recently
that netflix was gonna start trying to criminalize
like shared logins when you share a login am i
am i going crazy have you guys heard that too or
no for netflix i wouldn't be surprised if they're
gonna crack down on it more yeah they're trying to
because they're they're they can't go any higher
with subscriptions or yeah their subscription
numbers are hitting a wall so they want to
try to make it so you can't share passwords
anymore so their numbers go higher like i know
on mine we have at least three profiles though
three or four different profiles so they might
use ip this is probably or some kind of mix
i would assume to try to limit that yeah yeah
for sure we do we do the same thing and i want
to say it's a limit of like three viewers at
one time or three devices at one time too yeah
yeah yeah but for sure download
everything then they'll never know
all right so the whole way around it yeah well
i mean i guess we could start getting into the
market stuff because there's a lot of things a lot
of things a little bit that happens a little bit
right now a little bit actually impromptu hopped
on the phone with schwammy today which was sweet
i don't know if you guys have ever seen any of his
videos but we were talking a little bit about it
oh really what'd y'all talk about
it's great um we were talking about
largely like the psa backlogging grading and
some of the like gem rates and stuff because
there's been some good videos that have been
put out about psa and their backlog and the
percentage of tens lately that have been graded
this guy used i forget his i always forget his
handle but he has like really good youtube
videos and largely they're around um nba
uh card data but he has a ton of data on the
psa um basically grading history and he's been
tracking them as well and so it was interesting
because i like i just pulled all the pop reports
i pulled monthly and i was reviewing some
stuff for a video i'm gonna do this week so
we're just kind of talking about that but it's
uh it's funny because you know i won't you know
i don't have to go too much down the
rabbit hole but the interesting thing
is that the complete through dates
for value tcg is sitting literally
at october 5th which is like the the like two days
after the logan paul video the first logan paul
video so we're like we're at the precipice of all
the cards that got sent in right after logan paul
got back into the hobby so the next
three to six months of watching the
psa pop reports and watching uh cards that
come back is going to get crazy interesting
um yeah that is going to be really really
interesting to see that data and i've heard
i mean even a few people like charlie i know
i i can't remember when he told me when he
put his sub in but he's gotten subs back
which i'm sure are old subs but got subs back
um and and the gem myths there weren't that many
there weren't as many uh the people that you've
been talking to connor have they also kind of seen
the same thing or the content you've been showing
what the data has kind of shown like roughly
if you extrapolate it across everything at psa
is basically the rate of gem mint tens is at about
half of what it was before so if 40 of submissions
were getting tens now it's 20. and that's like
kind of what he extrapolated over a very short
term time period from this data but i think it's
like it's an interesting thought exercise right
like in this i'll probably talk about some
of this on the video this week but like the
how much is a function of psa becoming more strict
with grading how much is a function of people
literally just sending in whatever they wanted
to psa either either just because you know like
charizard's a great example right like any first
edition charizard in any condition became valuable
right it became worth grading right among a myriad
of other vintage and modern cards so you know you
can get a seven and whatever first edition bass
holo and it still was worth grading right so
so how many people had all that backlog that they
just decided to dump because it was not worth it
and then just the people that we know that are
totally uneducated right that just just just said
hey i have a shoe box of cards here they go and
you know whether it was unlimited or first edition
or fake cards or whatever like they just sent it
in so um and then there's also the idea of like
over time like there's only you know
let's say let's just make an easy
number like let's say a hundred thousand of a
certain card in a set were ever printed right
like there might only be in existence like from
the hundred thousand that were produced like
10 000 that qualify as a 10 and then from there
you go what's been damaged what's been lost
you know then you kind of add in some that
you know get some leniency right but there's
only a finite number right so then the percentage
could go down if the population just keeps going
up from an overarching standpoint because
there are literally no you know more tens
out there to be graded like potential tens so
um it's kind of it's it's tough it's tough to
like and then we don't even know what the other
you know ps or cgc looks like right we don't know
how many cards are there so it's about to get
so interesting so i don't know what you guys
think about that the market's already down
usually in the winter anyways into november
december what's going to happen when those cards
start coming on the market and people start
panicking because they need to sell because
they need to pay back all of their psa subs
because i'm glad well i'm gonna forecast that
out so that's what i'm banking on is just people
needing money and just having to offload because
there's no more raw bulk anymore that's worth
buying even the stuff that i'm
looking at now like it's still
it's trash yeah i mean i found one i'm
trying to get the guy to tell sell to me
but like it's these cards would be probably
like 80 cents a piece and there's probably
it's probably 60 percent mint to nearmen um but
even i mean that's might be worth the risk but i
mean i think just back to congressman like i don't
think there's a lot of tens that are out there and
people i think the junk slabs are going to be
coming in now going forward like this is where
it got stupid because all those articles came out
middle of october and then it got worse after we
went home for the holidays for november december
and then people are just sending cards in and just
it's going to be like you said it's going to be
interesting because i don't know how people have
planned out how they're going to pay for these
subs they probably haven't but if they're a
business they might have right or they might have
access to some leverage or credit or whatever but
it is it's hard because there's so many like
um there's so many conflicting catalysts
right like like you have 25th anniversary you
have the holidays like the seasonality of the
hobby like all those things that are like pros
and then you have you know so that could say hey
do we get another like slight boom into this like
fall into winter but then you also have like have
people really made a bad mistake and are a lot
of them upside down on slabs and it's like well
maybe because it was so cheap to grade then that
they might be okay like they still are gonna need
money right like i've taken advantage of that
already with cgc lots like bought cards from
people for 60 cents on the dollar because they
needed money to cover their grading fees right um
especially with japanese because they're just like
get it out the door you know japanese hollows
so um it's really hard there's a lot of like
odd factors and then the whole macro
overlay right um whether or not
you know the delta variant picks up or how people
perceive it picking up whatever what happens with
the world with that and then just like the
broader you know economic recovery worldwide
as a whole and then you also have like what you
know all the you know the unemployment benefits
ending the extended ones you have uh people are
going to start paying student loans and their
you know rent to getting him maybe pay their
student loans who knows but so there's so many
of these like conflating factors on like it's it's
such like comes down to like a personal level of
liquidity needs and it's like we don't know how
many people that sent cards one want to sell a lot
of them two how many of them were just like random
individuals versus like larger businesses that are
looking to just churn right and it's we don't know
the character of the submissions that have been
made which is really tough to see because i think
a lot a lot of those people probably sent the cgc
later you know in the year but i think we're
still in that period of a lot of people were
just sending the psa you know in october november
because that's what i did i i didn't i didn't send
him in until april may but i also sent in a dumb
amount of cards um but it was also just a cheaper
option at that time because of just how many
cards i was sending his psa would have been i
think was it fifteen dollars a card around i mean
it's been 15 was the lowest right or was it 20
god i can't remember now trying to remember now
yeah well there were before that it was like
it's like somewhere between 8 and 12. yeah like
right at one point depending on the quarterly
special or if you had vouchers or whatever
they're giving them away yeah it's weird
because we we were like i felt like we were so
hyper obsessed on the price changes and then
since psa closed and cgc hasn't moved their
prices since like whenever that was february
or march like i've just kind of forgotten
like the price history and just taken like
it is what it is now they made that move in
february march and then they made another move
in what was it june when was it because their
website was a disaster when i was trying to do
one of my last subs i think jessica would be like
12 hours to be one of yours because they just kept
because there were so many people putting cards
in it was stupid that was good it that's when you
were sent you because yours just got checked in
right yeah may was the one that i struggled with
the most that was the worst to get in that that
was the worst to literally put in it was i paid
7.65 per card so it's awesome i mean i don't i
mean it's not gonna happen again i don't think
even with like specials or anything like that i
don't see a company being that cheap if they're
not one of the big three i mean if they're like
newer ones i can see them being cheaper but even
then like how do they stay afloat they're
going to be that cheap they're not going to
like all these new ones no doubt like they're 20
minimum and then they're kind of going up from
there yeah i wonder like it's hard because
we don't see like what their business looks
like right so if they're doing things at a much
more rudimentary level if they're using cheaper
products and inputs but also they're probably not
able to purchase the raw materials for the stuff
they need or anything like that at scale like
obviously a psa is they probably have really
bad terms for all that stuff like i can't imagine
the economics are great have you guys looked more
into randolph's grading company that he launched
because i know nothing about it at this point
i haven't are you talking about is he the the
gentleman that actually uses like a scanner he
doesn't he use some ocr technology and then
zooms in i can't remember i'm thinking of a
video that i saw in gary's profile one time that
he invested with no doesn't mean oh okay yeah this
is random pokemon the dude from the uk who's
the um he's also like a musician like a rapper
um but he started a grading company recently
to my understanding but i never got around to
looking into it i think that's smart over in
europe especially with just shipping there's
nothing really over there that's defined i don't
think right there's not i mean they're all pretty
much space in the states and shipping is just an
absolute nightmare coming from the uk that's why
i don't buy from europe usually because just how
expensive it is not to make a currency exchange so
i mean they don't really have many options over
there so i can see that being a viable i'm kind of
surprised psa hasn't like tried to like buy one
of those smaller ones just to so they can have
some kind of way to get their name overseas more
so they could start grading cards over there but
well i think connor and uh what's his face
from um graded gem i think they work with the
see i always forget if they are working where
the grading facility is for psa that they use
but those guys graded gem at first was in
the uk and then z from z g was also doing
middle manning for graded gem on the u.s side of
their business but their business started in the
uk um i know there's a small facility smaller in
japan for grading but grading cards in japan is
not really a big thing yet they don't care they
feel like they're yeah they do sell them like
they're great and it's hilarious but isn't
it because of like how just how they keep
they just like hold on to stuff better than than a
normal american does they just keep they just keep
their cards in better condition and they're just
better about i mean i'm sure a lot of those cards
that are over there from like the early 1990s i'm
sure they're still in pristine condition or close
to it even if they aren't even graded yet just
because of how they keep their cars there could
be people with like there could be people in japan
like abandoned stores or like you know just random
families who maybe had a store before bought
during the 90s like who could have like boxes of
like like cases of like bandai cards like we have
no idea like the ones that went in the vending
machine like all the not the not the appeal sheets
but the actual vending cards like there could be
who knows how many of those could be over there in
pristine condition and then yeah my i was thinking
about this today like i i miss just because the
raw market has been harder and because of grading
costs and where we're at in the cycle like i
haven't been looking as much for raw cards but
um i also haven't had as much time to do so but i
do miss like buying as much from japan because it
they always came very well packed in very good
condition like with a lot of care behind it and
that was like always one of my favorite things
about buying from japan is just i felt like they
they cared a lot about like the quality
that's how the canadians are too
who i thought was sending me heroin when i got
the packaging of how it was like it was red it
was wrapped in trash bags uh duct tape uh it
was in sleeves but they were like i don't know
he did it some sort of way sorry just making
spit water but like they he had it like triple
poor like it looked like drugs and that's what
nicole thought when he had drugs when i ripped it
i got 600 cards from him so he like it was
a thick stack and i was like oh my goodness
oh my god look it took at least an hour just to
like really unwrap everything take everything
out take inventory okay did did i actually get
everything you know that that was insane canada
bread came in clutch they looked like they had
just came out of a pack that's how nice they were
which was i was still surprised that he was
selling them for what he was selling them for
with how nice they were like they
looked like they just were packed fresh
but he had opened them in 2012 i think he said
so it was they were like eight or nine years out
of packs so i don't i mean i don't know how that
guy assume he just kept it that was insane i don't
know how he kept him so nice i i don't either and
honestly like it'll be really interesting to see
what those cards great at between you and i
because i'm hoping if if i get pristine's if i
do it would come from that it would i i don't know
that i will but looking nines maybe maybe some 9.5
if we're lucky i mean if we get if we get
pristines out of those then i mean like
seven or eight of those cards pay for all
of the raws so i mean it's it would be nice
but i mean cgc doesn't give out tens do they
yeah you guys only only if you're a pancake
of everything i sent in i think out of like 175
to 200 cards i pre-graded two of them as a 10. i
asked pancake too and i said have you ever gotten
vintage shenzhen i don't i think he said he hasn't
they're only modern tens that he's gotten him for
yeah i wouldn't be surprised i don't i'm trying
to think of i've ever seen a vintage 10 from cgc
either version of their 10 pristine or perfect
i think i've only seen modern but i mean is that
that's going to be like a black label for people
oh no i've seen one i've seen one japanese one
okay uh it was a poly is it the poly wrath from
uh i think it's a neo discovery holo maybe i can
like see it in my mind's eye um but someone i know
from who's a seller from hawaii who has a ton
of japanese he got he got a 10 a pristine 10
it wasn't a perfect 10. and that's the only uh
vintage one i've ever seen it's so interesting i
still think i think there's a lot of opportunity
there still like you know more more from just a
i mean it's an arbitrage opportunity basically
right where if you want to churn you know and you
can buy really good cards in cgc slabs that look
like they might be able to be a psa 10 someday but
the biggest risk there other than just the hobby
risk is the fact that you don't know you're gonna
have to pay to regrade that that's true you might
i mean at this point i won't even bother regrading
because i don't i think i'm also betting on
cgc but right you're making that yeah which is
i mean the market's gonna tell us right like we're
gonna find out yeah definitely yeah i mean it'll
be really interesting to see because you know with
the increase in prices and we've talked about this
before the debate is there going to be a new floor
for graded cards some say yes and i can understand
why they do because sellers want to cover their
cost bases but at the same time will there be
enough demand for those prices and i mean we've
already been seeing a win in the market you know
i think um what ebay's uh most recent uh quarterly
report said that their active buyer base dropped
by two percent granted that's probably not due
to pokemon and all these other factors but i mean
you can't command prices if you don't have the
demand for the prices and the item i think with
that too with ebay is there's not they're not
the only show in town anymore i think whatsapp
is gonna that's true whatsapp is coming for
their for their market share especially with like
they just can't offer the same kind of stuff that
what uh whatsapp does and i guess i mean gather
samples do you mean whatnot email why not whatnot
what no yeah sorry yeah one that's the thing they
also came through with whatsapp but um whatnot
i mean that's it's just a unique product that i
don't think ebay i mean ebay might try to get into
that kind of live auction thing but i think ebay
is trying to diversify their business in a myriad
of ways right we're seeing them dabble a little
bit in content we're seeing them dab more in the
commercial lending on like the high-end you know
watch market for example so they're figuring
out different ways to make money and try to
try to adapt but i do think i do think the way
things are trending is more that experiential
marketplace like what whatnot started to establish
um it's just way more fun right um you know the
hard part is like i know i can go and buy
something for x on ebay pretty much you know
by and large at any time if it's fairly common but
on whatnot it's always going to depend on you know
are they doing a raffle with you know for the top
bidder in this thing and brilliant for sellers oh
my gosh i mean you can sell you can sell a hundred
dollar slab for 200 just because someone's trying
to be the highest bidder like it's brilliant but
um back to the the original debate i have i have
i think come to the firm conclusion that there
is no such floor anywhere for anything um
from for a variety of reasons right i think you
know one first and foremost is there's this weird
lag between how many people graded you know cards
for eight bucks and the card maybe cost them 50
cents and so they're more than willing to
sell you know if they're a business yeah but
like even you like you have volume right like if
you if you could sell all of those cards for 20
or 25 and the you know psa's lowest grading
fee is 50 like you don't care that that's 50
like you're making a double or a triple on your
money and you're just running that churn like
that's how a business works like that's where
the money's going to be made in this hobby
going forward is on like those low cost higher
volume like transactions i think and then like
in a longer term perspective some like you know
unique investment pieces but anyway right like the
the fact that there's such like a large amount
of low-cost basis slabs that people are going
to be willing to let go of for you know pretty
pretty low prices i think because as a business
you don't need to hit home runs you just need to
hit a bunch of singles and it'll be interesting
to see like it's kind of like what i alluded to
before i don't know how much of the market or how
much of the backlog at psa for example is cards
that were submitted by like for gosh sakes like
the guy like dan and travis like i know they use
cgc largely but like the volume that they submit
to run a business like that's why they'll
sell me a first edition cgc 9 or whatever
for 15 bucks because their cost basis is
like four dollars that's awesome for them
you know so how long does it take for all those
low basis cards to flush out and for there to
be some like reset of you know there's only
cards entering the market that have you know
25 grading fees associated with them and
the answer is probably never because the
market doesn't really work like that and the
volume is too great so you know part of my take
and and honestly like to double down
on what you're saying with what dan
and travis are doing i mean i remember one
of the first conversations i had them on um
they literally they they told me they never keep
money in the bank they're always just putting it
back in putting it back in in terms of cards
sending them out to be graded you know not
leaving money in the bank just because they
know that in order for them to make money
volume they did you get on base like that reminds
you of that one movie with what's his face
you know they're always about just getting on
base and like the other cool thing with whatnot
which i haven't been paying too much attention
to their auction prices but i love how that app
also has like virality built into it
you know like in order to increase users
you want to you know have a micro influencer
strategy or an influencer strategy right
well if you have them if you ins like they
have their own flywheel kind of like amazon
the more auctioneers you have on there that have
influence the more users you have on there to to
bid and buy things and then so the more people
you have buying things the more people you have
selling things and it's just this circle where it
it's just freaking awesome i haven't used the wrap
they're the ones who are going to be the
like an example of the winners in all of this
anyone who is part of the transactional nature
of collectibles and is just getting a cut
of every buy and sell those are the smartest
people in the room right it's like the same
as like the crypto market right like the coin
bases of the world they're the people who are
going to be the winners you know and that actually
make the money that actually make the money yeah
because it doesn't matter if the trade was
a winner or a loss they still get their cut
right they get bigger fees though yeah they
don't care yeah they can enter into any market
and still come out profitable in the end it it's
great the cool thing about whatnot is that like
they're to your exact point like they're able to
partner with social media influencers right like
they've done these weekly breaks you know where
they do a succession of breaks with different
you know polka tubers or whatever
like i would love to know
how many users they added after super
duper danny opened that error box
oh yeah yeah must have like because that went
so viral um at least in ours like for pokemon
yeah plus all the stuff that like i don't know for
me like i don't give a [ __ ] about like there's
you know gosh there's vintage clothing on there
which is like kind of cool like sometimes like
depending and there's like funkos which i hate
but like they're there like obviously there's all
the sports guys like there are you know there's
i mean stuff i do like like vintage video game
stuff like there is a huge and diverse marketplace
on there um across not just hobbies but like just
things people like stuff you would go on mercari
to buy you know what i mean right so um that
business is super interesting they could you know
i think they have a lot of improvement to make
that they have a lot of opportunity and they were
pretty much the first mover at least in the u.s
yeah i mean they definitely have first mover
advantage though sometimes it's a disadvantage
to be a first mover too because because all
of your all of your um you know they expose
vulnerabilities exactly exactly and so someone
can just swoop in and do it so i mean but but
it's cool it's really interesting to see like like
this is what i was thinking about the other day
you know because at first when pokemon first came
out you know we were kids we were young we didn't
know what the hell was going on but as adults
now when we can kind of like look back on the
market of pokemon and to see where it could go
right because you know i've been taking in a lot
of uh hairy rancor content and reserve investment
content and that's been really interesting because
we've had these conversations before but
used like different terminology and now
that i've been exposed to more of this like
content from the collectibles and the antiques
like specifically like dudes that have been in it
for longer than we've been alive it's been really
interesting because they have all the fundamentals
to it right so we're like in the second stage
pokemon is in like the second stage of the life
cycle of a collectible and so now at this point
it can either grow into a no i'm sorry maybe the
third stage so reserved investment it's like he is
i forget whose philosophy that is but it's like 25
or 30 years right yeah yep it's all harry rinker
yeah harry ranker right yeah i mean and and
so so that's so cool because now pokemon
is at that point where it will either start
to mature into a stable market potentially
or it might turn into like uh you know a dying
market where we won't have another generation of
people coming back into it to kind of continue
to get keep that market going because i mean
you know when you think of markets like you know
historic documents rare books uh you know coins
uh ancient weapons straight blade whatever
the crap you know whatever whatever all that
all that business right you know those are those
are considered in in harry rinker's eyes stable
mature markets those are markets
you can jump into at any time
and most likely get an roi over the years
if you hang on to them long term right
which is all the things that we want to do with
pokemon but it'll take a long time still to to see
whether or not pokemon actually turns into
a mature market but it's cool because we're
adults now and we can watch it on the ground
floor and make our choices and and honestly like
you know i think pokemon has a really good
chance of maturing into a stable market
because it's a huge brand compared to menazu which
we can get into a conversation about metazoa in
fortnite at some point but but but i mean what's
kind of nice though is like you know i thought for
a while i was gonna keep all my pokemon stuff
i was gonna keep it all super long term and
see like a 10x you know some stupid right but but
now i'm getting to the point where it's like okay
i think there are some things that will do really
well over the long term but if there are things
that i don't really care too much about like in
my personal collection that i don't really care
too much about but if i can 2 or 3 or 4x that's
probably even if it's a short-term move that's
probably a good move because we're not going to
see everything appreciate how we would want it to
so i'm here to just take my paper gains for those
and enroll it into something else that's good to
remember in like a mature collectibles or antique
market that a lot of those are like the general
majority of any given kind of asset is
probably going to be something that's
more of a store of value than anything else and
the higher end of the market's usually where
either the higher end which usually includes
the things that are the most rare and unique
right whether condition absolute or both
rarity um those are the things where
you know you could see some sort of significant
appreciation largely due to a little bit of time
and people coming into the space and
understanding it a little better right
but it's like the large majority ends up
just being kind of more of a of a store of
value play um and we're in the weird part of
pokemon where a bunch of this stuff is gonna be
not even close to a store of value it's gonna be
a loss for most people honestly or at the very
best completely like dead money um but probably
a loss honestly like and that's the weird that's
the hard part right it's like it's like do you
have you bought it and collected it just because
you want to collect it and like at the end of
the day like people have collected things for
a millennia because they enjoyed doing so
because we're creatures who for some reason
like or at least some of us like this idea of
like collecting things and having you know stuff
to display or show out to our friends or
enjoy visually or whatever it is like it
you know satisfy some sort of ocd tendency
whatever um and then you know at that point
it's just like it's purchased right but it's
yeah no i think you're i think you're right is
that the the ip is so large and i think i think
for barring some like major screw up i think
within our lifetimes we will probably see pokemon
continue at least for the large part um i think
we've got a good one to two more generations
like as long as they don't screw something up
um but i think at the very least like the hobby
will be around for decades and decades to come
um that's my hope as long as the the ip continues
to kind of touch as many different facets of the
world as it has right because there's so
many outlets for it right like people who
play pokemon go who don't even they don't
even know what you know evolving skies is
right you know what i mean so that's one
of the cool things about it is it does have
it has a lot more going for it from a
survivability maturing you know a potential to
mature standpoint because of that um that doesn't
mean cards will do the best but it does mean that
the the hobby of or the the pop i guess the better
words the popularity of pokemon will stick around
so i guess maybe i want to caveat what i said
before the the popularity of pokemon is probably
here to stay around for a for a longer duration
right like it it this ip should survive for
many decades to come but we don't know what
will happen to the card specific side of it um
it's impossible to know right cards are
having a heyday right a resurgence but we
don't know what that looks like how nfts come
into play what people are going to collect in
20 years you know how they're gonna collect
um they're gonna want all this physical stuff
um or if there's just armageddon we just
have to use it all as firewood and tinder
that's always a possibility
well you know you know it's really interesting
too because if people are strictly thinking about
collecting cards from an investment perspective if
ultimately at the end of the day you want to trust
like the jockey like if you're investing in
the jockey of a business like a startup right
uh you know the the idea is okay the market's
okay you know all those things are there but
probably the most important factor is the person
that's leading the ship right i mean to your point
you have to trust that the jockey is
going to keep the ip big which is why
i'm so hesitant with mana zoo because
there's so many things that can happen
before it even gets to a point similar to
pokemon right it's only in your world never it's
it's just never going to happen i mean it's like
it's almost it's basically an impossibility for
that to occur yeah it's almost a statistical
impossibility i think just because there's no
unless unless they turned into a media yeah i
mean unless they turned into a media company
that's the only thing because i agree
with you it's an impossibility unless
they think of themselves as an ip a media ip but
there is so much that needs to be done you you
you're betting on the jockey like like if you're
into metazoa and and you think that they'll go
you're trusting that whoever is holding you know
at the helm can grow it like that yeah and that's
the thing is that it's here's the thing it's a
card game first and it's a car game that's based
off of like what i would call like historical
fantasy i guess you want to call it it's not like
it's not like their own media to to to create
this universe because it kind of like is is fine
like it exists right it from a historic like what
they're basing it on right um and i just don't
pokemon was always so much more right like all
these other like there's so many other like
ip touch points like come first like stuff that's
been around for five years or a decade like
i mean even like fortnight's got a way better
chance of like ever being anything like that
endures then like something like a meta zoo
does like i see metazu the same way i see like
gate that gate ruler trading card game like
some people are going to really like it
some people aren't it's a trading card game
collectible card game maybe people will play
it they also have major supply constraints
and about 25 employees to pump out whatever
it is 25 000 boxes or whatever so good luck
yeah i mean it almost seems like mezu was built
as like an investment tool already like it's
not really pokemon was built as like a card game
that's part of a different part of a bigger ip but
meta zoo just doesn't i mean it just it doesn't
i don't even know how it survives the next five
years because it's the scare like it there's not
a lot of supply already i don't know how it's
going to improve and if you improve the supply
what's going to happen with the card values
like people aren't going to want to do something
or have that experience with their children if
they got burnt when they tried buying into it like
you i don't even know if you can play the game
right now because there's just not enough cards
out there and like i'm not a hater of like the
like people should collect like what they want
to right if people like like it like i have
local friends who have opened it and like they're
pretty objective about it um i know ketchup craze
is gonna put out like some some kind of pros and
cons video about it that he did um because he's
been able to open some and he's pretty objective
about it and like at the end of the day like uh
if people like it and a handful of people
continue to enjoy it god bless them um
i think just objectively it's not going to
become some monster um and i don't know if
they they think they wanted to or if they needed
to right like i kind of think it about like if you
own a business like you can go two routes right
you can try to continually grow that business
no matter what like even if you're super
successful you just always always want to grow or
you run it as like a lifestyle practice like just
running it for cash flow letting it just exist
and if you have a decent margin you're making a
good living off of you know whatever product or
service you're providing and i can see them doing
the latter like just existing in a space where
they do decent sales and people kind of like it
and there's but more than likely it becomes 10
years from now it's like people have some of these
sealed boxes and they're like oh remember that
weird thing that came out during the pandemic
that got super hyped like and it'll be like i've
heard people put it this way like it'll just be an
oddity right um that's why it's an interesting way
to put it yeah i wanted to have it to remember
2020 and 2021 like remember what happened here
you know i would think i would think about it
a lot if i had you know i was looking at it
i mean i was literally having this conversation
with jeff off the discord we were talking about
it and like i i definitely agree i think
people should buy whatever they want right
i if they if they want to spend a thousand
dollars on a meta zoo box that's on them
do i think that price will hold i mean i don't
know only time will tell i don't think it will
but i mean if you bought it at a good price that's
reasonable for you that doesn't put you you know
in the poor house and you want to play the game
i mean like we'll see how that goes what what's
not clear to me is and i've i've watched a few of
uh rudy from alpha investments videos on meta zoo
because he believes in the product he likes the
product he thinks it's cool um he's one of the
reasons the prices are the way they are him and
the other group of influencers who are you know
supporting it is i like not just not
saying it's malicious but just saying like
it is just talking about it that's the world we
live in like it's just a function of social media
momentum but i'm sorry continue you've talked
about it a lot no you know he he has done a
lot of talking about it and i mean i think if you
can get the product like i kind of feel like you
have to sort of taste it like i i try to taste
stuff if i can so if i could get metazou at a
reasonable msrp price i mean i would definitely
buy it just to try it maybe open up a box
see what it is see how hang on to another box just
to see what it does in the long term i mean that's
something really interesting but just some of
these prices gosh it kind of reminded me a little
bit of fortnight when fortnite was really booming
with prices there's not a problem with things
going up in price it just seems a little too soon
for these hobbies like fortnight cards it's only
two years old meadows cards is only one year old
i mean you know it's just a little soon and and i
i think i think part of it is uh you know a lot
of people wanting to get in on the ground floor
or something because if they got in on the ground
floor of pokemon and they held on to those boxes
10 20 30 years later here's where we are you
know we're looking at hundreds of thousands for
a first edition booster box right i mean i think
probably a lot of people have that in mind as well
but what's not quite clear to me and i think
it's probably important for the long term is
how many people are buying in our actual players
because i think like i think that's important
you know because then they bring more people on
board with them and then they share it with their
kids in the future um i don't know that's not
that's not quite clear to me i haven't really had
anyone really comment on that specifically because
a lot of people are in it to invest in and that's
fine and we've had this conversation before where
demand is demand right right but i think for long
term of a hobby like this i think it is i mean
you know disagree with me completely it's okay
but um you know i think for me to feel more
confident in that hobby potentially growing
and expanding into other mediums or other things i
i kind of feel like they they you know the player
base needs to engage from that perspective i
don't know that's just my opinion yeah i think uh
either a player base or a real collector's
base right or a mix of the two not just people
expecting on something right not just people who
are involved in other hobbies or just speculate
on something right because when you think
about like there will there will probably be
so let's take like the last decade there might
be one or zero things that come out of that
decade that have the series of events that lead to
them being pokemon-esque 25 years from now right
or 15 years from now like create a massive media
brand um have a massive you know resurgence right
after a long low period um have a black swan event
that caters to their you know type of product that
they you know push right and the world's changing
pretty rapidly right so who knows where cards you
know for example would be 25 years from now but
i think i think the hard part that people don't
this is what i think about a lot okay and
i know i say that sometimes i think about
a lot of things a lot we're living in a in a
time where people in our age demographic are
have gotten used to making money in
a good amount of money in a very fast
period of time right so very compressed
return period whether it's been digital assets
or even traditional stock you know did when i say
digital assets i mean bitcoin ethereum whatever
traditional stocks pokemon cards sports cards
like people who don't have a historical context
for how all these markets work think that this is
something that's like easy and highly replicable
over time and the f the fact of the matter is it
could have been anything if logan paul came out
and said i just bought like the world's biggest
collection of pogs then this all could have been
pogs and all this stuff behind me could still
be worth what it was in 2016 or 2018 or 2019
and we could all be talking about freaking pogs
right now right and it it just comes down to the
fact that people are trying to use they're using
the item to generate cash flow and it could have
been it could have been anything that fell into
that black swan event and you know obviously
like there there are tailwinds for something
like pokemon with such a massive media brand
but let's say it was you know something very close
right like i don't know some like like hello kitty
collectibles right like because that's like the
second biggest ip in the world right after pokemon
are pretty close like yeah some real yeah it
could have been anything um not anything but
anything with a with a fairly substantial media
brand around it right like it it could have been
marvel like at like at scale right um or something
like you know like obviously that got hyped but it
could have been that could have been the core
like that could have been the thing right it
didn't have to be pokemon and now people are just
trying to use anything to make money quickly right
and they're just using social momentum to do that
and it just happens to be pokemon right now so
i guess what i'm trying to say is like again
i always come back to the fact that it's like
it's most of it's uninvestable right
is it modern look at look at what happened
to vivid voltage in like what six weeks
like house of cards fell down i think pokemon has
it also has different markets too people forget
about like do you have the vintage you have
the japanese vintage like there's different
markets within that market too that people just
i think they just look at is like one one market
and they don't kind of focus on the different
like the charizard card that you posted today
that sold for was it 600 000 or what is that
is that the price that uh 500 000 yeah yeah
hey would that be what was was that the highest
or was it there was there a higher one than that
i think that's right highest right yeah
um it's like i should know this like
immediately but i can't remember
i thought that i thought it was
i thought it was higher than that i thought
it was like 5 17 or something not six
let's see because elijah got his it i try
to like i try to like look at the benchmarks
it's somewhere in the ballpark right we all
know it's like around the ballpark that 500k
marks like pretty close um gosh
what a what a bad 10 by the way not
i've seen worse ones oh that was not a good i
was going to ask you how it was because i had
only seen the front but like that's a thing
too like those early tens like a lot of them
oh oh boy yeah that's very super it's crazy
old um yeah it's probably like uh like uh
around 2000 like year 2000 graded
guard who knows um is has there been so
this is a saita has there been talk about how
the cases could be damaging these cards so they
could have graded as 10 but then once they sit
in the case for 20 years and they shift around
do you think that might be having maybe
maybe it was a 10 but after seeing that
case for 20 years it could be
now be like an eight or a nine
i'm curious because i i've never i've only owned a
japanese card with that old of a cert but japanese
cards were always known to move around more in the
cases so i don't know um i've never had that old
of a card from psa to know if like the
standard like english first edition cards
move around in there but i can tell you that the
case looks like it went through a meat grinder
it looks like it is like trashed if you
look at the pictures like it's i saw the
back and i was like that can't be on the card
because this is a 10. it has to be the case
um and it was it was bad it was really bad you
know i have to dig up the video but there's a
youtube video of a guy testing out cgc cases and
i can't remember if it was one of the early cgc
cases or the more recent ones because i have
a i have an older one um that that it did move
around a lot um but he literally like he he
shook it physically and did comparisons and
then made a machine that shook it and there
was no change what's his face it was uh yeah
oh wait i can't think of business matter now
he's he's an elder he's he's a like uh online
marketing social or social media kind of pathlin
yeah pat flynn yeah right now he's he's like an og
like internet marketing guy he created
uh he was like studying for like the
if it was the bar like what the hell it was and
then he like created this online like course
website for people like he wrote like a like a
study guide book or something and then he got
into like social media marketing and all this he's
been very successful very good at what he does
but he also like loves pokemon so then he like
started to get into pokemon but honestly i started
forgetting like what these people's histories
are because they just don't consume their
content as much if anything at all like even like
like i can't even watch like leonhart like i just
can't like it just i'm just like i don't like
your your expressions and your reactions are
just annoying me i don't even know like you get so
depressed when he pulls something that's like not
a good card like it's just like it's super weird
i don't know so i always uh i tend to like forget
all these like back histories i
can't keep all this stuff in my head
about these content creators but yeah i don't
know i don't know how those that old case works
i might have to talk to eric and charlie next
weekend because there's going to be some real
old head collectors at the florida show that
i'm going to yeah yeah so i'll have to talk to
them that'll be really interesting because you
i literally thought that okay shaking the card
affected like shaking the case affected the card
like surely right surely it would but for the cgc
it didn't so you know i don't want to just assume
you know by by proximity it's the same for psa
but that'd be really interesting but i mean
those those recent charts though uh zards that
we were talking about a few weeks ago that went
through auction those were really trash looking
those are really really bad tense i'm still trying
to remember what the record high was and i feel
like i should i feel like it was like 400 but i
can't remember but those ones went for like it was
like low high twos low threes and tournaments
but what yeah it wasn't the record highlights
wasn't it like a grey stamp and that's
why it was so early i'm kind of weird
that's why i went for so high i'm trying
i just can't remember honestly it's like
those things i should remember like what am
i even a pokemon content creator gosh guys
i don't even remember what the highest
charizard price was but i thought it was
like 400-ish but it's always i always can't
remember like which ones got paid for either
confirmed it was cool that
pwcc messaged me today though
and they told me that it had been it was
an actual sale because when i first saw
that sale i thought it was just like a weird
ebay thing like just because sometimes their
their stuff just glitches and they like you
know like it shows sales that never happened
or like canceled orders and they said it had
been purchased but not yet paid for which i
still don't understand because i think that came
from the vault so like did the person not click
purchase like is there some different like system
of payment that i'm not privy to because i've
never bought a 400 000 card on on ebay like do
they get to like contact pwcc directly and like
work it out like i don't know what happens there
i think so they had off too yeah i could wire that
money wouldn't they i would not expect you would
be producing that on your credit card but hey at
that at that level of wealth i mean you can have
like you could have a black amex and just put it
on there there's no limit like you theoretically
could it's a hell of a lot of america's points
y'all imagine doing that oh my gosh i'm still
blown away with what um uh with what anna pogo gal
told me when i had her on a few weeks ago because
she talked to dan because i was like yo you
need it you need to have dan and travis on your
podcast and dan told her that they were literally
they hadn't been paid on eighty thousand thousand
dollars worth of listings from pwcc i think it was
oh yeah i remember her saying that yeah which is
which is insane to me because i'm thinking okay
either they were selling some really nice cards or
you know just by volume but that's something that
like i've been trying to figure out because doing
those market roundups like it is hard to really
verify i mean i've got pwcc pulled up right now
for pokemon cards right i've got it listed down
for completed auctions highest bid first right
but and i mean these are these are older ones so
so like the like the illustrator that that
went in february that one went for 375.
you know yeah right but but these other ones like
like what can i trust what can i trust and and i'm
assuming that if it's still on there that they
paid for it right that that's what i'm assuming
but you know trust but verify yeah i like you know
i don't want to put information out there that
i can't actually you know say with
full confidence like this is the
thing so i've been trying to figure that
out still like like how does this piece
yeah yeah yeah exactly which i know i've
had like i've i've sold the card that then
like for some reason it couldn't ship to
the buyer's country so we cancelled the
order but it still sat on like the sold
listings like when i look up that card
so i but i haven't like looked it up
in a while so i don't know if it's
stays on ebay for that whatever that 90-day
history and then falls off or if it gets
eliminated when they realize it wasn't paid for
like i don't i don't know but that data is messy
the date is super messy it's definitely gonna stay
messy unless we we put it everything on blockchain
which is still something i'm trying to get
figured out but but but i agree with you i
agree with you i don't know i part of me kind of
feels like even though that particular instance
wasn't paid for it would have still been
paid for had you been able to ship that so
it's kind of like well so someone was willing
to or was trying to pay at that price point
would we consider that valid i kind of say
right yeah half half-ish you know it's not like
really true right that's what i'm saying so
i don't know i i've been having like it's
been a while since i've really had some
deep thoughts on it but when it comes to
the app and when it comes to data validation from
the api that's going to be really hard because
you know like shill bidding i see it all the
time like the other day i literally saw a lot
for like 14 cards base set unlimited basic [ __
] no hollows and that apparently sold for over
2 000 or 4 2 000 something like that and i'm
like come on people like this is stupid this
is this is obviously it's gonna get it's
just gonna get even harder too and like
i mean between like for people who are educated
especially on the higher end with the 1099k
changes people are already disenfranchised
by selling on ebay right the more now that
we get these in-person sales or instagram deals
or whatever like there's gonna be so much price
history that we lose on a lot of like i would say
like the higher end or the more significant cards
in the hobby as more trades start to i mean
people love trading trading's fantastic right so
i think that it's gonna be it's gonna be hard
to like kind of keep track right because people
people have gotten so we've all gotten so
spoiled by the volume of transactional data
that we have at our fingertips now like we
can look up okay hey char i forgot like the
charizard sold for 400k at golden auctions in
march right and i think that was the record one
if i remember like whatever like it's it's not
always gonna be like that like whether it's like
cards going into like forever hands and them only
selling like every few years maybe like more rare
stuff or like those yeah like trophy cards or the
just the amount of volume that ends up happening
offline in person like we're not going to have
as much access to that data so it's going to
be it's going to be kind of more important
than ever to like understand directionally
where values are going but also like i i
personally think and i know it's hard because it's
one of the only ways to like look at it
but like people rely too much on comps like
just because something sold for something
or has been trending in a certain direction
has no necessary is not a necessary indicator
for the like true value of that item like it
just happened like we all know this right but
people like people will just be like well one
just sold for two hundred dollars and yours is
listed for three hundred dollars and i'm like well
because that's actually probably what it's worth
and one random auction on one random day is not
indicative of an entire market for a certain
card and in the same way just because a bunch of
hidden fates charizards or some or you know
evo charizards are selling for whatever
and now there's 14 000 of them uh like it's crazy
to me how these like how these modern cards sell
for more than vintage like
gem mints or nines and there's
a hundred times as many of them for some of these
cards it just makes no sense to me it's promo
they're just people are afraid they're gonna miss
out on and they want to get it so they'll pay
stupid prices and we see it we see that like
it's hilarious because like the same thing
happens right like the first like whatever
altar from eevee heroes gets graded and
sells for like three grand and then the next
week another one sells for 1500 and i'm like
you guys know we keep doing this every time
right like definition of insanity doing something
over and over again and expecting a different
result like it's just human psychology is so
fascinating to me especially when it comes to
emotional hobbies uh and how that plays out in
the markets like investor psychology or buyer
psychology is just so fascinating and maybe
what it just really means is that people are
not as smart as we want to think they are but
emotions are hard to mitigate right when you're
making buying decisions on stuff that you really
want or feel like that's a true skill yeah it's
not easy it's hard to do and that's why i haven't
been looking at the market right now because
everything's down from what i used to buy it
for but i know it's not not the so i just that's
why i just haven't even looked at cards until
like recently because of just how it's just i mean
the so for ebay like when it when we had when we
were in like the middle of covid from september to
like march like that was all like that was all the
transactions like you did kind of have that comp
data so you could see what was going on i mean now
like it's a free-for-all like you have no idea
where prices should be where they actually are
and then you have the looming i guess cliff
of graded cards that are gonna be coming like
is there even a point in buying
a lot of this stuff right now
it's almost like you're better off just
sitting and waiting on the sidelines until
everything kind of settles out um and that's kind
of where i am at this point just because i don't
i just it's just hard to buy right now because
there's not a there's not really a lot of
good data really like you've been saying it's kind
of all over the place and it's hard to get a good
read on what things actually are worth because
it's it's funny it's funny because you know
by and large you would probably characterize
what's happening in the market as like
setting a bottom right like you can't call
the bottom and we're talking about the
broad market but like we've we've seen a lot of
things reach a level of stability or even start
to rebound and trend back in the other direction
which is really interesting at least in like the
the slab world and some of the vintage sealed
market um and i'd say kind of broadly as a whole
we're reaching a more like stable area but
i think a lot of that to your point is like
there's there's a lot of uncertainty especially
because we're in literally the lowest volume
seasonal period for like ebay or collectible
transactions like the summer especially
like august into the beginning of september
worst time to be a seller like least amount
of transactional volume like it's just how it
works there's no holidays coming up people are
doing a lot of other things like it's just super
a super sleepy time of the year right and then you
get that you know the same thing where you hype up
into the holidays and then all that blah blah blah
right all this stuff seasonal um and it's
funny because there's like a lot of people who
like six months ago were dying to buy things at
prices one and a half times where things sit today
but now there has been a lot of uncertainty
introduced for people because they thought
you know trees were going to grow to the sky right
and then you know i think for us is is more like
you know it's both collectors and people
who try to like you know might try to make
some money in certain places in this hobby like
as a collector i think it's just like continuing
to be a real collector and what comes with that
is being uber specific on what your goals are
and not like being greedy right so buying very
selectively like whether whether it means like
hey i want this set or i want this grail item like
being very honed in on what's going on there like
i know i've been super patient for one or two
items i've wanted you know what kind of one to
three items i've wanted i've pulled the trigger
on one there's another two that could take a long
time um but i don't necessarily think i think it's
like a good time to be both a buyer and a seller
right now like just from like where the market
sits like it's like as just like whatever like you
just want to buy a slab or you just want to like
sell like you know it's just kind of like okay
an okay time for everyone and we we don't know
what's going to happen in the short term right
prognosticating our short-term price movements is
usually a fool's errand but at the end of the day
it's certainly it's certainly in a place where you
know it's more attractive to buy than it was last
november and last january that's for sure right
you kind of saw that like double peak there
um but there is a lot of uncertainty that's been
introduced and i don't think people understand
how liquid this stuff is and when they need money
they're not going to be able to get it easily i
think we're going to find out though i think we're
going to find that out though the next four to
six months i think they're gonna have to realize
that they're not gonna have a choke they're gonna
have to learn it yeah yeah all of a sudden they uh
you know they don't have unemployment benefits or
extended ones they might be working again you know
child care is astronomically expensive right so
even if kids are back in school there's still
is some factor there if you're working again
or working more you know all the things we
talked about with you know if they have to start
paying student loans again if there's you know
different things with mortgage payments
or rent moratoriums or blah blah blah
blah foreclosures all these things like if you
have to come up with money to pay you know to
put food on the table for your kid you know the
first thing to go are you know the luxury stuff
like this the luxury stuff yeah the superfluous
stuff and then you really find out that oh crap
there might be a lot of this out there and that's
when the undercutting starts and you're going to
continue to get this you know i think bifurcation
of the market where you've got kind of the
the the part that's way there's way too much
supply right and it's always kind of been that way
and then all of a sudden there's gonna be way
too much of it on the market and then you're
gonna have the other side where there's still
stuff that's super rare that people are pursuing
on the higher end that that stabilizes or grows or
you know continues to set all-time highs like it's
it's kind of the same as like
and i never like to make this
here it comes comparison but it's like it's
like it's like it's like good companies and bad
companies in the stock market right like it's it's
like it's like people it's like it's in what i
what why i make that analogy is because like it's
like what's going on under the hood right like if
last year we saw like you know you know 400 and it
wasn't that it was like 390 or something companies
in the sb 500 like underperformed the market i
think it might have been more drastic now whatever
i forget the stats it's no one wants to talk
about finance right now but what i'm saying is
there can be a small concentrated portion of items
in the hobby that continue to trend upward and
move like okay market upward but there can be 90
of it that's just hot garbage and underperforming
right so so you've got you've got inflation
as your as your baseline you've got like
uh like one percent of the market
that like does a high volume of
growth above that and those are like the high-end
high dollar items and then you've got all the
stuff below that's super common that underperforms
or has negative performance like that's
that's we could see that unwind in a big way
but that doesn't mean the overall trend of the
market isn't going upward but under the hood
there can be a lot of pain for a lot of people
oh exciting that is so true i mean we've had this
conversation you know there's always someone left
holding the bag but what's also really interesting
too that you've like alluded to a number of times
going back to like the human psychology of it
which is really interesting but rudy from alpha
investments just recently talked about this and
i agree with him because i think at one point i
was this person there's always going to be people
in the market that are going to buy high because
they feel really good because it's high they feel
really good they feel really confident about it
and that's what they're going to do they're going
to buy high and this is on anything this is on
anything right and and then those same people when
there is that uncertainty like right now because
i've had conversations with people before on
this they're like i'm not too sure about pokemon
you know like what they should be doing is they
should probably be buying right now right because
this is where you can mitigate your risk
by managing your entry point a little bit
better versus when there's a lot of you know
buying going on like what we saw last year
with those huge ass spikes so i mean you know
there's always going to be people in the market
and and and it's probably fomo wrapped into it
but just people that aren't going to feel good
unless they spend a lot of money for a thing
i mean that's a tricky area too because you don't
want people just to buy because they're going to
average down their investment um that's what
i've heard a lot of like the people i mean that's
that's the scary thing like do you do you buy
now because there's hesitation in the market or
is the hesitation not as bad as it should be
because of i mean it also is because those slabs
that are coming that's also why i wouldn't touch
a lot of stuff because of just you there's no
the uncertainty of like how much is actually
coming on the market is is a huge issue um
i know people also too just like don't have
liquidity like they they spent themselves out
right i have liquidity that i won't spend it yeah
this is true but you were also like a little like
i don't know or a little more rational i think
than the average person that's also true but i
mean like that's it's just i mean i think that's
people they just didn't plan it out well they just
they just saw the opportunity to make money
because so many people were making money off
of it and now that's just i mean even sports
cards right now are getting absolutely hammered
um i think there was one i think someone i
can't remember who it was they're talking
about giannis rookie cards they were
going for four grand in january last year
he won an nba title they're just around
i think 2k right now so people even
that made that bet that he was going to be a
good player and he was going to win they're
still drowning in it so there's still that there's
still that chance that could happen in pokemon too
i mean cards are still up a ton they're just
not as up as much as they were in february and
was it february march we kind of started to see
the turn i think that's when it was maybe april
yeah and it started reopening more and people
wanted to sell their cards because i'm gonna
panic or they just wanted to go do things and
that's something we talked about in april 2 was
what are they going to do to in order to go out
and do all those festivals they didn't do anything
for i guess it was what 18 months so instead
of spending money on festivals or traveling
they spent it on pokemon they need to now sell
that pokemon to go and do the things that they
want to do already um so i mean that's another
like what is what is that going to look like
because i mean i wonder how many of like those
people are like like i i sometimes i think about
like uh what those people like we'd say that a lot
and i think there was a there's certainly a lot of
that but how many of like the people still in the
hobby like do they just like to spend their money
on pokemon and stuff right like are they just
like if because some people that's just like
what you do right like they'd rather spend their
money on this than take trips right but i think
the there were the majority of people who came
into the hype were just average people who will
pick social activities over a card any day of
course um but it's kind of funny to think about
and then there's also that whole aspect
of crypto too like what did that play
like how did that play into the card value
going up because you had bitcoin selling at 60k
our 64 thing was the high and people probably
were cashing out and being like where can i put my
money now like where can i spend it so like this
is that's why i said it could have been anything
yep there's no idea so much it was so much of
like it was just social momentum hype that the
money could have flowed anywhere and i think we
did see a short-term very high correlation between
digital assets and collectibles for sure
because it goes back to that theme of
folks in our generation making very quick money
and looking for the next place to make very
quick money and eventually that ends very badly i
mean we we kind of saw it right we saw the crypto
market get cut in half and pokemon get cut in half
so we kind of did see an example of how that could
end very badly for a lot of people right um i mean
we saw it in options trading too that was a big
thing like that was i mean that i kind of remember
that too because that was a big focal thing of
if you were like looking for option trading you
could see tick tocks instagram posts youtubes
about all these get rich quick schemes but they
don't i mean it's the same kind of thing like
people made quick bucks off of that too because
i mean everyone i mean everything went up so
yeah that's how everything went up yeah
so it was it was hard not to make money
yeah like i made money off football cards
and i didn't even when i got into it like
i didn't have like the ambition of making
money off of it i paid like 70 bucks a box
i should have kept them sealed because they
sold for 1400 seven months later um but like
that was just like i think a lot of people
stumbled into it too like they had no idea that
that it was gonna be worth anything like that
i said i just sent an article over private chat
the guy who sold the charizard for 350 bought it
for 700 in 2009 or 2011. like it's not i don't
think that's gonna happen again yeah i don't think
so right now and i think that's where a lot of
people are running into trouble is that they have
this level of confidence that they're going to be
able to make some incredible kind of money in this
hobby and they don't realize that a lot of that
like there were some people who very much thought
that pokemon was undervalued and were right
but the compression of those returns into
such a short time period as we all know
was something no one could have predicted like
that could have happened over a five to ten year
period but not a six month period i mean that is
just its statistical anomaly right it was just
the fact of what's happened over the past
18 months is just insanity you know so and
there's just this like there's people that
this is how i think about it is that there's
there's a lower barrier to entry lower than
ever on being able to bet on yourself from
an entrepreneurial uh or business standpoint
right whether that's um your perceived skill set
as a stock trader or your perceived skill set as
a reseller or your perceived skill set as a social
media you know influencer or whatever it's easier
than ever to take a non-traditional route to try
to make money but i'm not convinced that there
are more people than ever with the skill set that
lends them to be successful in those things and
so i think what we're seeing is a lot of people
try to bet on themselves and their perceived
skill and knowledge and wisdom or whatever
and some people are using pokemon as the
medium to uh try to play out that thesis
and i don't think that they realize that it's it's
kind of like i said that like you know you have to
really the people who are going to make money
in this or the the high level of transactions
on low-cost basis stuff that are more of
that are a business it's not like a it's
not like trading stocks it's a it's
a business is a cash flow producing
business structure right versus like this kind
of like like what what is even attractive about
buying a hundred dollar card and selling it five
years later for a hundred and fifty dollars like
what could you have done with that hundred
dollars like where could you have put that
to you know make a much better
return than you know after
fees taxes inflation whatever making 10 bucks
on a 20 bucks you know what i mean like it's
people don't understand the opportunity cost they
get too hyper focused on the the thing that's
that's exciting now and that people have already
made a lot of money it's the same thing i talk
about with bitcoin like when i was buying bitcoin
at a thousand two thousand three thousand like
that was when you made the easy money
to now yes it was a lot of risk but like
it's 50x like you know like it's 25 to 50
x depending where you entered there right
like even buying it five and ten
thousand and fifteen thousand like
you still was like quote unquote easy money
right like now it's totally different ball
game when you have more eyes on it when
you have like i think about it like
like let's say let's do something easier like
like bitcoin is an example right but it can
extrapolate to buying a card too right like if
you bought it at 50 000 and it went to 25 000 now
all the people who still have it at 25 000 are
scratching and clawing their way to get out
close to even or still at a loss but not as big
of a loss all the way back up and that's so much
downward pressure on pricing that you'll see you
can see the same thing in the pokemon market where
it's going to take an astronomical amount of
time for the majority of these things if ever
to re-hit all-time highs that they sold for
because there's so much downward pressure on
the pricing as people try to exit all the way up
it's easy when people are piling in all the way up
to see returns and make money but it's a lot
harder when people are trying to get out all
the way back up it's a it's a headwind right so
from a market standpoint there's a huge headwind
from a collecting like pokemon standpoint like
i love this [ __ ] and it's still super fun
it's wildly interesting and i i love it
and i'll buy things whenever i want at a
reasonable price but like from uh like thinking
you're an investor standpoint like i'm sorry
but like it's just not gonna happen for
you like the average person is not going to
make any sort of needle moving dollar or
percentage return on the majority of items here um
it's because if it was that easy everyone would
be doing it i think the opportunity is not right
because you you have to buy cheap raw cards that
were could be highly graded in that there are they
don't exist anymore yeah i think we had to own
it in 2016. you know or 18 or 19 like or march
february of 20 you know like and that's in
in but i in this is you know these are super
broad-based terms because i think i think
what all of us have always wanted to do was
to help the average person understand or to give
them a way to protect themselves from themselves
people who are super deep into this hobby like
much deeper even than than we are perhaps right
like there's always opportunity for people
like that because they understand where the
true dislocations and arbitrage opportunities
are but i mean there are people with way more
knowledge of this hobby than than myself and i
know they have ears and legs up on me but also
you know sometimes it's just about seeing
the right opportunity at the right time
right and being able to do that you know
at at a big scale or being able to get the
right entry point because of a relationship
you have and the right timing and all these
it is it's a lot of luck it's a lot of situational
you know uh it's a lot you know being in the right
place at the right time effectively and also
having built the right relationships and putting
yourself out there all the time and then also
being you know to my sprays that i say student
of the market a lot of the you know continually
and knowing that hey when you know x card sells
for a thousand bucks and you have a pretty damn
good feeling that it should be like a 2500 card
that happens like these are highly inefficient
markets like you you know i've had that you know
we've talked about this before where i've snagged
a card for you know lower dollar amounts but you
know whatever 40 bucks and then immediately
flipped it for 200 or 150 because there's so
much inefficiency in these kind of markets like
it just happens like a freaking ebay auction that
happens on a wednesday afternoon that you happen
to catch like that's just when it's about like
it's about participating you know but it's also
like having the knowledge like when there's 30
seconds left on an auction you don't have time to
go learn about that card what the pop is not about
what the demand should be like conceptually based
on you know the the historical significance and
popularity like and sorry for going on this rant
but it's just like it's true though it's like it's
yeah it's it's 100 true because how it mean
that's that's what it comes down to because
when i was buying cards like i would spend
six to eight six to seven hours a day just
looking at the market because that's how
you would buy because there's so many people
moving in and out you had to know what the
prices were at that time otherwise it was hard to
to know what you were paying for if it was a good
price or not and that came out to six to seven
hours a day wow in october uh october november and
into december and that's kind of how i was able
to find things like that's that was the only way
and like it would be like sporadic so like i would
choose like different times throughout different
days to see what was going on and what was ending
to kind of get an idea of who was actually bidding
on things like and now we know this like you can
tell like at 11 a.m like you you don't want to
be on you want 11 a.m east coast because the
west coast isn't up usually and that's where a lot
of the buyers where they were west coast so like
it was figuring out that and like you don't like
connor said you don't have the time to figure out
if the card is worth if it's going up like what
your value is going to be you need to already
kind of know that and if you're jumping back in
now like after not being in the market for like
three weeks like you could get burned because
you don't know where prices are and you don't
there's no has like it's hard to even trust the
data on ebay because like it could be fake too
it's like you kind of have to like live through it
otherwise it's it's hard to buy it's just you're
not gonna you're gonna get hurt it's hard to keep
up with alerts too like i even trying to keep up
with alerts where i'm not even in it all that
often and i just try to keep up with my email
and i'm just like oh my gosh the volume that's one
thing that i cannot wait to kind of put together
with the app is just to get sheer volume on things
because i mean right now we can kind of see that
but to really see like to be able to step back
and look at the market from that perspective
you know and and accumulating that in history
with historical data like adding to that and
seeing that over the course of two to three years
that'll be awesome i cannot wait i cannot wait and
that's i mean that's the thing like if you're
if you're coming in and you're like expect if
you're thinking like long term like three to five
years i think you'll be okay if you are thinking
like three to five months or even a year like i
think i don't know if it's going to be it's not
going to be it might not be worth it like it's
you might only make like 15 on a card you kind
of you it's kind of like what you do if you're
coming in to like enjoy it and like you don't
care about how much it costs and like go crazy
buy whatever you want but if you're trying to
like start something more than that then you kind
of have to look at it as three to five years not
one to two or one to three like i'm targeting the
30th anniversary like that's the thing right now
because they didn't really have a chance
to like go crazy for the 25th anniversary
i think they'll do a lot more in the 30th because
they'll have the printing machine they'll have the
the availability of people being able to
go out to like these conferences and these
events like even the olympics like they
were gonna i think they probably had
more plan for that too but there was nobody
there like how they probably might have
something planned for that i would assume but like
no one could really go to it and interact with it
um so i mean that'll be interesting too to see
what they have planned for the 30th anniversary
um neo reprint can i get a neogenesis
reprint please i want that i i mean or
or southern island or anything like that i
know you're about to say southern ireland
it is like stuff like that
like blueprints are good
i'm excited for like what they're doing like
i like i i don't know like i think i think
some of modern's pretty amazing like i think
celebrations and 25th anniversary set japan
like that's literally like that that'll look
awesome the japanese stuff is just so good
like compared to the it looks awesome i know
i mean evolving skies have you guys seen them
like the the evolutions the art in that it's great
it's good i'm good i'm trying to get a handle on
the pull rates like what's going on because i'm
seeing a lot of great cards everywhere and it's
hard because it's like social media is like
you only show your wins type of thing but like
i've seen people open like the the build and
battle deck boxes or whatever they have a few
packs and they got like a few more pre-release
packs and pull like multiple hyper rares and stuff
and alt arts and all like and i just think
like there's a lot of opportunity in the
card market for pokemon to do really cool
unique things like and guys have talked about
this right like one of ones or numbered cards
or signature cards or you know what happened
all the things that traditionally we've seen
in sports or even marvel like the sketch cards
like um which i'm learning more about you know
through some of the guys that i like to watch
like or you know talk to in the hobby and uh
all that stuff like stuff that i'm traditionally
obviously used to with sports too right like
numbered cards like that growing up like that was
always the thing if you pulled the card and it was
numbered like that's still the thing now too with
those cards yeah it's it's huge yeah and like one
of ones now or more than more than ever a thing um
like pokemon has a lot of cool opportunities
to do stuff like that and i'm sure they will
um they've done amazing things with the art
right these alt arts are just crazy good um
but i still think people are paying too damn much
for all this modern stuff i mean i just don't
in that like i'll i'll i'll pay to open and enjoy
modern but i won't pay that price for a singular
car no matter what it is no matter how bad i
want it i just like can't like circle that square
um i just can't i don't know it doesn't
make sense it's just like i would like
like all this weight like i'll wait this three
to six or the price to come down and like
it's just like i don't know like like if you're i
just i think people forget like how early on when
those cards in like early 1990s like those cards
like people forgot about them and that's why the
value went up because people just the time factor
is huge in those sets modern everyone's just going
to keep them nice and sealed and safe and put them
in slabs and like there's going to be thousands
of them so literally goes into a sleeve and a
card saver one as soon as you pull it yeah like
come on like and especially if it's japanese
like it's it's ridiculous like the amount of
quality cards that are going to be around from
this era 10 years from now is going to be pretty
outstanding like it's going to be the i mean i've
kept track of some of the i've mostly kept track
of the you know for personal stuff like the
vintage populations but man some of the modern
populations it is just crazy yeah modern charizard
i'm going to get these are just gross yeah yeah
like if you look at if you look at like hidden
fates like half the psa pop is the charizard
like that's not even in numbers like
compares to like what like we've seen like
i don't know i feel like a few months ago i
looked at evolutions and there were like eight
to ten thousand charizards and now there's
like 14 000 charizards like just the regular
like hollow charizard and i'm like it's gonna
get worse did that grow so fast like it's like
it's gonna get way worse and i've
looked at a bunch of numbers for
the last like six months of of the of the more
the vintage pops but it's like i said before i
think the next three to six months are gonna
be fascinating and this will release after i
do this market monday video anyway so
i'll be double saying it but just like
the next three to six months are what's gonna
totally like just like get your popcorn ready like
it's gonna be fascinating i'm i'm so excited from
uh from a standpoint of like a person who none of
my uh none of my like um like financial standing
is tied to pokemon at all meaning like if my house
burnt down i lost all like all my pokemon stuff
like it would really suck but financially i would
be okay i can't imagine having and this is what
i said to swami today i'm like i can't imagine
if this is like your business or like you've quit
your job to like do pokemon full-time or like like
oh my god like between like imagine if you were
like a middleman who was also like flipping cards
and doing all this and basically you can't get
your cards back from psa uh all the places to
middleman two are basically closed and uh you
are just watching the market tank while you have
however many thousands of dollars of grading
fees sitting at psa like and i laugh but
it's actually like i like i how do you use
that it's a reality for something every day
there's probably like less people than we
think that are like that because i think
like hopefully because i think a lot of those
people like have some sort like a lot of people
well it's hard because some like a
lot of lgs owners don't like don't
like dabble in the grated card market or never
have you know what i mean so it's like some
i like i'm interested to see how some of
these businesses have developed that are doing
large-scale like raw degrading operations and like
what the other parts of their business look like
if they have anything to do with pokemon or not
like it's it's super interesting right because
some of them are probably sports guys some of
them are probably totally rando doing something
else thing like you know like people like us
who like but at a larger scale right might
have a regular job or whatever but gosh people
who who really went all in at the wrong time
that's that's a scary thought honestly um and you
haven't even brought up you haven't even brought
up the price increase for booster boxes like i
i pre-ordered two evolving sky boosters booster
boxes those booster displays i'm excited i'm
excited you know honestly i should have just sent
them right over to you and then be like oh so we
can open them for you yeah that's a good idea yes
crazy i know right but but i'm just
looking at these prices like i paid 147.
oh my gosh i don't even know what that is it just
looks expensive it looks very cool that's going
to be one of those super rares but um this is yeah
what it what is it waifu wednesday waifu wednesday
yeah so this is an sp white schwartz card so
there's there's six of these in the full set and
they're like faux signature it's a beautiful voice
artist it's it's it's i wish i could like describe
to you how stunning this is in person it reminds
me of some of the pokemon full arts but like even
more so any time rudy is selling weiss anytime
rudy is selling advice i tried to get in on it
but it goes so quickly um yeah but but talking
about going back to the prices and the distributor
prices and i don't know what recently everything
has come out to but paying 147 per booster box
36 packs that was pretty expensive to me that's
why i only bought two because i want to go you
know i want to get a taste for the set but that's
pretty high so you know lgs's lcs's who like
are already working on razor thin margins you
know like yeah i mean it's not telling though
it's not crazy like it that kind of falls
between like walmart prices for a pack and like
barnes and noble you know like or an lgs
like because that's like what like four and
change a pack or whatever like yeah you're right
you're right is what it is now right like it's
you know one of the things that i will say
that was the thing they were cheaper when
i got vivid voltage they were like 75
dollars of they were 500 for six boxes
like i don't think that's ever going to happen
again now right oh absolutely not and and i'm
not going to lie the other thing too that
kind of messes with that price point for me
is is i'm very much used to buying draft boxes
from magic the gathering and i'm paying like 80 85
maybe 90 at the most unless i go to an lgs and i'm
paying like 120 yeah well so i i mean i mean now
it was just surprising to me because i'm used
to that price range and i'm like holy [ __ ] all
the etbs are sold out those were in the like the
45ish range before tax you know all the etbs on
the pokemon center website this is pokemon center
website and i was just i was i was shook but i'm
really excited for the set i i'm really excited
to see where that goes because i think a lot of
people will be really happy with it and i did have
a conversation with poker gal i know she skipped
the one that just came out and
she's interested in the evolving
skies and i don't blame her yeah yeah
it was probably the good choice i did
i probably i you know i bought a little bit of
chilling rain i have a little bit of evolving
skies but not like i could really skip it mostly
just because i love dv heroes so much and i'm cool
with it but i did get the pokemon center exclusive
etbs to for display pieces oh nice because they
have pretty illusions on them yeah i thought they
were cool like i thought they would be cool to
keep um to kind of compliment the eevee heroes
stuff i have but do you want to get them in yeah
they're just have they don't know they haven't
they haven't shipped yet no they were pre-order
i think uh is it the 26th it's like 12 days from
now yeah oh okay i think you're right yeah it
says the 14th so 26 i think yeah um but now i'm
much more interested in basically buying as much
25th anniversary stuff as i can get my hands
on but only certain products i think that like
what's been great is because we know so much about
what's coming out there have been so many people
who have been able to put together videos and
say hey here's the best bang for your buck and
luckily the things that i kind of wanted the most
are the best bang for your buck so that's great
oh yeah oh yeah no doubt no doubt
they they have a lot of great ideas
before yeah and that's you know
i've said this before but it's like
it's hopefully going to make it really
accessible for a wide array of people
like i think a lot of people will like this could
be their first foray back into pokemon like if
if the if the marketing around this goes
right i think we could see a lot of people
uh come in for the first time i just hope they
can get their hands on it you know and they are
doing a lot of reprints of a lot of those vintage
cards like the charizard so it's kind of i like
how they are you know tailoring it for us in a
way because i mean those those are the ones that
that that we recognize and so bringing even more
of us back into the hobby which is always a good
thing it's always fun how do people like remember
the historical significance right like help them
understand like the history of pokemon like i'm
trying not to look at all the spoilers because
i just want like i know there's like literally a
video out there with like every single card now
that leaked i don't know like someone stole a pack
of cards from the some kentucky manufacturing plan
or something i don't know i like i'm bad at
keeping up with that stuff guys i'm sorry
but like my brain only has so much space but how
dare you something like that yeah gosh god forbid
but yeah well you know honestly like hard like
don't you feel like you almost have to like know
everything sometimes and then like it's it's
hard people expect you to like know everything
like people will ask random questions sometimes
and i'm like how would i ever know that like or
remember that like there's only so much that
can fit in one's brain about pokemon but
oh my god i don't know that is so true
i have a i have alerts for like 10 to 12
10 to maybe 15 different keywords uh you know
like with those google alerts right just to
keep up on news and i get them twice a day and
it is hard like my inbox now is perpetually
like i i'm the kind of person that if i have like
notifications on things i need them to disappear
yeah yeah and and now i'm like
i'm i'm sitting at 29 right now
yeah i'm sitting at 29 because i can't keep up
with these alerts you know and i have a lot of i
did for you really i turned off the notifications
so that it doesn't even show the number on the
icon and i just pretend it's not happening i get
like 50 a day from i get like 50 a day from ebay
oh gosh keeping up with those as far as i've
been 45 alert update yeah it's like almost
60 of them now but it's like i'm thinking about
turning you know it's hard it's hard i've thought
i know i i try to turn them off selectively most
days like a lot of times i'm just looking for the
number on some of them but it's hard because it's
not even how many helpful because re-listings show
up in that right so like i'll have like i don't
know that's true psa 10 pikachu promo and i just
want to see how many listings are hitting the
market every single day and just directionally
where something like that's going right um and
then you know it's some stuff you want to buy
and some stuff that you're just interested
in and some stuff that's market you know
study related so but it's like yeah i'm with you
it's a lot you know what though with with how i
have it set and i'm thinking about changing it
um i have it set to i have a few i have a set
to where like i'll see any pokemon listing that's
there so like no specifications just pokemon right
and then i have another alert where it's
pokemon but anything that's sold over a
thousand and honestly that email in particular
is the one that pisses me off all the time
because i always see dumb ass [ __ ] where
it's like oh this charmander sold for a
thousand dollars and it's it's literally a
unlimited base set it it looks like trash
it's it oh it's legit i'm looking at one
right now i'm looking at one right now it
says 1995 charmander pokemon card it is
just a base set unlimited pokemon card
and it's sold for a thousand dollars and i'm just
like come on it just it makes me mad and honestly
like what's the one you like to look at the
most or that you have that you like find most
interesting yeah um i actually have one for
bowman curl mottos uh because i try to keep
in touch with baseball too just to see like
just to see what people are listing and and
and see what players are popular like which
which ones people are thinking or prospecting
you know that that's really interesting because
there's a few guys that i'm prospecting right now
um so yeah that's kind of what what i watch yeah
mine's first edition raw so it's been that way
just because there was nothing it was
first edition rasa were coming up that
looked like someone had chewed on them
and then put them on the bed sheets so
it was it was an idea or they wanted
five dollars a card which i'm not paying
gosh that's too much i mean they were not i would
sell them for five dollars each but i wouldn't buy
them for five dollars you know any time toad
anytime i see raw cards on a on a bed sheet
i think of you james because of that one sale
i need to send those listings to you when i see
them you probably already have seen them by the
time i'm sending them your way but i think that
every single time well the best part was the ship
sending the shipping instructions too that was
fun also yes that's wild that was i mean the
cards were the cards were great so i can't and
then i also got a raichu out of it too which
you gave me for like 60 bucks that was
that's just incredibly lucky like like
how did you come out of that with minty cards you
know what i'm saying well that was the thing was
i was in december people started panicking and
wanted to sell because they were worried that it
wasn't going to keep going up um canada james when
i spoke to him he already told me like in january
that he had wished he had not stole to me because
he didn't think it was going to keep going up in
value because he sold me in november but like
a lot of people just thought it was like this
bubble that was going to pop so they wanted as
fast as possible and just get money as they could
and canada james sold you like all those
cards for four less than four dollars a
card right something crazy he was selling me
really like making like pack fresh cars that
so his dad made him when he opened him in like
2000 he made him put on a sleeve and put him in a
top holder and that's how he stored his cards and
i'm like okay well you're like one percent of the
people that actually that is a [ __ ] ton of top
loaders uh yeah it's because he had 1300 cards um
but he was basically a lot of people wouldn't buy
from him because of the high shipping and i was
like [ __ ] shipping you're selling me pack fresh
cards that are going they're like two dollars a
piece and i'm getting a guaranteed rare and he
told me if i bought a certain amount of packs
he'd give me hollows too so i was like okay how
many do i need to buy so like i was paying like
maybe it's probably the highest i pay
was like three or four dollars per card
but i was getting a hollow rare so it
kind of made it worth it to do that um
i thought he sent all of his hollows in for
grading some but he so he's got typhlosion 17 18.
he's got um what else did he have he had all those
hollows from those neo sets he has all of them
um he also had a gym challenge he had a bunch of
those too he that's where i got the ditto and the
the giovanni from him as well and then he had a
bunch of uncommons and comments that he um that he
sold too um but he had so many cards but i think
he's still waiting to get those cards back because
he i haven't i haven't talked to him in probably
six months but i think he had said he had like
i think they were like eight or nine
months away when i last spoke to him so
i hope when he when they come back yeah yeah i
i want to see him he should open up an instagram
account you should tell so he has an instagram
account but he doesn't post cards he just i'll
send it to you afterwards um but he ju he's i
mean he i think he had like he had he collected
the card with his dad he had him and then
i think he forgot about him for 15 20 years
and then all of a sudden started sending
and started wanting to sell them because
they were worth something finally again
and people were talking about them
hey that was free money for a lot of people
in a time where a lot of people really needed
some money yeah exactly and that's and that
there was just so much opportunity to buy
stuff like that because providers educated on
it oh yeah they had no idea it was it's the best
situation to be in right where like those people
gave up upside but they needed it and we were able
to buy things and provide that liquidity in a way
that wasn't gonna be a detriment to us because we
were really lucky to be in a situation where we
were still doing fine when a lot of people were
you know in dire straits yeah so i was actually
going to offer to buy his inc complete set but
then i told him like you probably don't want to
do that because these are worth x y and z like i
was i think we were negotiating but it was going
to be 1300 cards for like three thousand dollars
all of them everything he had for three grand
but then i was like well you might want to check
out this and look into this and i gave him
your podcast too jess just to listen to it
and he's like oh so maybe i shouldn't sell
these for that i'm like you probably shouldn't
um which i kicked myself for for not buying
all those cards for that one that's big
because he was nice he wasn't like
because i dealt with sellers that
were like [ __ ] and i was like okay [
__ ] you i'm not gonna help you out then
but like that's i didn't want to like rip
him off because he was he just didn't know
when you're in the when you're in the space
where like let's put this way like you're
you're in a good financial position we're
kind of like making excess money here through
basically some arbitrage and some hard
work like we can make that conscious choice
to be really kind and good to both people buying
from us and people were buying from and like i i
think it puts us in a better situation to not get
greedy as long as we stay grounded there but like
i have no prob like like i'll have people
like if i post cards to my ig story for sale
and people will be like you know i get paid on
friday like can i buy it then or like next week
whenever you know the 15th falls on like the next
wednesday or stuff like this happens and i'm like
like if you like if if if you don't have the money
for it like you probably shouldn't buy it like i
have no problem telling that to someone i think
i think that's the only way that we can continue
to help like the hobby from a card standpoint
move forward is if we do everything we can
as collectors but people who are also selling into
this to like be better stewards of the hobby and
that we're like we're like not undercutting or
being you know bad sellers uh and like taking
advantage of people because the more people that
get burned like what is it to make an extra like
10 on something if people just keep falling out
of the hobby because of that and if everyone's
doing that it's not worth it because then like
because at the end of the day i think all of us
need to just remember like that we love pokemon
and we love these hobbies and it like sounds
cliche but like you have to like kind of like
be protective of the hobby you do and you and
part of that is you know being that good steward
and being someone who doesn't you know backstab
and undercut people and helps things progress
forward you know or call options like a schmuck
you know i mean into your point too there's plenty
of money to be made for everyone there's plenty of
money to be made for everyone so you know there's
a lot going around you don't have to be scummy to
to really make like legitimate money and it's
funny that you say that too because i drafted
uh my roundup that's coming out tomorrow morning
um i already drafted it it's scheduled it's good
to go and literally that's one of the things
that i bring up you know if if we don't take
care of the hobby as it is right now and make
sure um one of the points that i made was if
we don't make sure children have plenty
of opportunities to experience the hobby
with positive feelings at this time around
we're we're prioritizing short-term gain
for our long-term game because then we
we may not see you know who knows what
kind of an impact it will have on those larger
gender on on the generations moving forward but
it could have a negative impact where they don't
re-enter the market which is again going back to
how you create a stable market is the next
generation comes in and is able to continue to
prop the market up so i mean you you took it from
a different perspective but it's the same concept
you know we have to make sure to also try and
take care of people in the hobby because if we
see people leave the hobby with due to negative
experiences negative feelings like holding the
bag on something you know and sometimes that those
those situations are going to be it is what it is
like that's an is what it is kind of conversation
but more situation but to your point you know just
like letting people know hey you know you could
probably get that for a lot more even though
right now i want to buy it and i would really
benefit from not telling you this information
yeah i mean some people they put themselves
in that position where they can't do that
they their their margins are like they kind of
have to be unfortunately they put themselves in
a position where they have to be kind of scummy
which isn't an excuse but like that's that's a
scary part of the market that could be happening
when this when december and november come around
people need money and they're like how do i prop
up a product that i know is not worth something
but i can make i can use my influence to try
to prop it up and that i think is going to
happen more often too and i think it's happening
with modern and like we i mean people we know of
content creators that do that and that's a problem
that i don't i don't think it's been brought to
light yet just because i don't think people know
any better except for unless you kind of abandon
the market you kind of understanding but people
coming in like they don't know if someone who has
10 000 followers like they expect them to
be trusting and have the correct information
they might just fall for that trap and
they'll be in the market for a month and
then get burnt and they'll be out of the
market which isn't ideal for us long term
yeah i really wish those people would just
like stay in their lane like like if you
create a certain type of content then stop
talking about things you don't understand
just because you feel like you have a large
following and ability to make some more money off
of it or feel like you should be talking about you
know the money side of things or whatever like if
you're an entertainer just entertain right dance
monkey dance but don't start trying to talk about
you know markets and fundamentals and you
know investing and or on the other side like
a lot of people like will talk about um they
will speak as if they have information about
the pokemon company or the like distributor level
information or like all these things where like
they're not even in that conversation
like i would never try to talk about like
what's going on from like the supply
side of pokemon because i have no
it's all spotted out whatsoever i don't run
in lgs i don't have a distributor license like
i don't know anything about that all i know
about is traditional market investing a love
for pokemon how those intersect and how investor
psychology works like i will stay in my lane
like and it it it gets really frustrating where
like that's where so many people so easily get
burned is when these people start talking about
like investing and like not to beat a dead horse
but they just start talking about that and you
know that information is being disseminated to
a ton of people and honestly you know i really
do think that unfortunately there's going to be
another hype cycle probably this year depending on
what happens with kind of the world as an overlay
but i like come on we're they're doing another
freaking first edition base set box break in
the fall like history tends to repeat itself
right and you mix together 25th anniversary
and getting into that seasonality of the
hobby and you know this box break and
gary and i don't know exactly who's involved
i know gary is involved and it's like an
event maybe aoki's with him dude oh is that
what they're doing are they doing metazou
and they're doing first edition oh i don't know
i don't know if they're doing meta zoo uh i i
did see something about that but i don't know
if that was the same i didn't know if it was
first edition or that was the same break but this
like this has been planned for a long time i know
um it's in vegas i think but i don't think
there's like that would make sense it's
not like in an event to go to yeah but i know
like they talked about it months and months ago
um it'd be interesting to see if logan paul does
anything again like it's i think there's going to
be a lot of opportunity to people to sell stuff
in into hype again it might it's not going to
be i don't think the same level by any means but
there's i would hope not there's no and that's why
it's like there's all the right headwinds in place
for like the market to do poorly but there's also
these just weird tailwinds of like we might get
a short-term perfect storm honestly like that's
why like people who are very deep in the hobby
like maybe considering buying now because there's
certain parts certain opportunities that i think
are going to be a short-term play on this market
and it's just like whether or not you want to make
money like that or put the time and effort into it
right and just i think it's super interesting that
you're like looking at bowman chrome like baseball
players and stuff because i think like a lot of
the opportunity kind of in this space is probably
elsewhere right where there's less eyes or more
you know i don't know just i think less like
i don't know how to say it but like less like
social momentum around it basically right like
um you know like i for one will continue to be
thinking about harry potter oriented items going
into a 25th anniversary and know what i will say
it because not enough people are going to listen
to me for it to affect what i'm doing but i will
continue to search and look in different places
for specific items because they're doing a lot
of cool stuff next year over the whole year and
i think it's going to be like really interesting
they're putting out new cards harry potter no
like stuff with the book like stuff oh gotcha and
they're doing like uh they're doing like these um
it's i guess you could call it like a museum
sort of thing but it's gonna be like touring
and they're doing a re like i just pre-ordered
there's like a reprint of the first book uh with
like different art in it and like a special like
seal on the front i forget but it's like and it's
not like limited edition but once they're gone
you know they're gone next year like and they're
doing a lot of stuff a lot there's a whole article
with all these different events they're doing and
different you know things are coming out with
products and whatnot are the tours all in london
no like the things in like philly to start oh
because the first place this thing is and then
um and then i think the goal is for it to be like
toured around and go you know jimmy would go to
new york city and maybe la who knows but but no
i think like if you like it like if you if you
my problem is like there's so many other things
i do that like i just love pokemon so like i'm
involved in this hobby right and then like i
love harry potter so i do that stuff right like
i literally just rewatched all the movies it was
awesome um but like i just don't have the time
personally to go and dive into a bunch of other
like collectible hobbies that are probably you
know under you know flying under the radar that
have a lot of opportunity like i would rather like
spend my time doing other things but some people
like that's like a better use of their spare time
and i think that's where people who want to spend
time in this ecosphere should be spending more of
their time is not where all the eyes are which
is pokemon but where they're not yeah but where
they're not yeah so but like i think people should
just like enjoy the hobbies they like and not like
try to like make something out of nothing
because there's a lot of risk there you know like
and i don't i don't think the average person
has enough like financial wherewithal like the
biggest thing i worry about is that like most
of the people who are involved in this pokemon
market don't even have a savings account or
a traditional brokerage account or a roth ira
a lot of them probably don't have like 401ks
at work like a lot of people just like don't
have financial stability and that's like
we've talked about this before like that
worries me a lot yeah yeah i i agree with you
well you know going back to your point about
you know someone sticking maybe with one market
versus learning multiple collectible categories
so this book that i've been trying to get
through um killer stuff and the money um
which is about the antique world right and what's
really interesting about these guys these guys in
the antique world have been in it for so long
they know so many categories on things honestly
how the author uh maureen stanton describes
them as being like a little bit of historians
which is which is really interesting to me because
because it takes a long time to learn these things
but once you learn it you get really good at it
so when you start to go to those flea markets you
can find some really good stuff and you know
exactly what you're looking for and i think
like like for me at least i want to try to get
there with at least one but ideally because i'm
looking at everything from a long term because all
the things i collect are things that i love like
you know at first i thought
it probably isn't possible
for me to learn all of them but i think seeing
these antique folks like really really focus
in on on learning these things and just getting
experience and it takes years and it takes time
i mean that that'll be really interesting i don't
know i i i hope to get there at least with with a
few um at least with a few i don't know if i can
do everything but but i'm with you i i don't know
that's awesome goal though you know that's super
cool i feel like like i've gotten i'm starting
i'm on the path there with pokemon and i think for
me it's probably enough for me like maybe some of
this stuff or like other i don't know like maybe
specific anime or like harry potter like i could
delve deeper into from that standpoint but um i do
just really enjoy because there's so much to learn
about pokemon that even i haven't scratched over
the years like always something is always coming
up that i don't know about or that i've never like
like for gosh sakes i've never even seen that cp6
secret rare charizard before until the other day
i'm like how did i not know this existed what like
i want to know more about this like and i just
immediately write it down in my notes to like
look into later and like understand you know
what the history of that card has been so far like
blah blah blah whatever and then obviously the
same for like you know all the interesting vintage
stuff but i uh there's just only so much time you
know only so much time only so much that's cool
that's cool yeah and and and when you and when
you bring more markets or more categories into the
mix it it makes decision making harder because to
your point what you brought up earlier sometimes
people don't realize opportunity cost and you did
talk about this on a market monday when you
said you're probably not going to make money
on your pokemon cards your money might just be
better served in a roth ira if you're purely
thinking about it from an investment perspective
but you know that's the other thing too that i've
been struggling a little bit with you know when
i am looking at the bowman chrome cards like
interesting do i go for these cards or do i go
for a pokemon or like like i was thinking about
it the other day when we were talking about that
vending series sheet um that we had gotten weeks
ago i and you and i we had talked about it you
know i was thinking to myself hmm okay so do i put
this money in an autonomy card or do i get this
vending series you know card sheet that i can pee
cost is hard right and it's like especially
when it comes to hobbies because it's like
it's like it's like entertaining there's
entertainment money and then there's like money
that you're putting in on an opportunity that
you think is something that you can flip or that
is an investment like and there's you know like
those three types really like there's you know
flips store values and and longer term investments
right but there's all that and then there's so
that compared to the opportunity cost of putting
that money in traditional markets or putting that
money you know paying down debt with that money
for gosh sakes like doing so many a lot of things
that create create a return either instant or
longer term potentially and that you know opportu
opportunity cost is is always like it's the it's
one of the toughest factors to like decide about
you know oh oh 100 100 and something that i didn't
want to bring up because i just looked at it
holy crap okay so this is immediately becoming a
two-parter episode it's it's gonna have to be it's
gonna cut me off i know right absolute shocker
right um which i still can't believe the one
with pogo gal it just immediately it didn't tell
me that i was gonna cut it off short to what 75
75 minutes or something like that and yeah my host
just automatically did and i was like oh [ __ ] so
yeah i'm gonna definitely have to split this up
into two parts but um this is this has definitely
been good i don't know how you guys are doing on
time uh we can go for a little bit more if you uh
do a little bit how about you james yeah i'm fine
i'm getting a little tired but i'm doing all right
is that beer no it's not i wish oh okay i was
gonna say i was gonna say someone brought beer
which isn't a bad idea um no but it hasn't it's
in my cool pokemon glass so at least there's that
okay so we do have to see the pokemon glass
now oh it's awesome it's so awesome it has all
157 on it what that is so cool yeah they're
so oh man where does one get such things
it was um this place glass to mouth and so
they were sold out because i like waited too
long to buy it and og ryan at og retro had one
and i waited too long and i ended up missing
it and then i messaged them and they were like
hey we found an extra and so i got super lucky
so i basically got like the last one so it's
very oh those are fun oh those are awesome
you know one thing that i do need to get that is
obviously not cards related but pokemon related
is i need to get pokemon threads like i need some
shirts i need some hats i need some i noticed the
togepi earlier i noticed it some dude called me
on my youtube comments because i pronounce it
and he's like i love that you put out content but
you need to learn how to pronounce this and he
like gave me a link to like an anime episode and
i'm like bro i just it's not that serious sorry
wait how did you say it did you say to pee pee
yeah oh that does sound a little cringey though
i don't know i'm kidding i'm just playing with
you i mean but honestly some of these some of
these newer ones like i don't know if they're
black and white generation they probably are
if i don't like it if i don't like the design of
the pokemon i kind of assume that it's probably
black and white but some of them i don't even
know how to say and and i needed to learn just
from other people saying it for a long time i
couldn't say rayquaza because it just the spelling
didn't make sense to me so i don't know if i'm
the only one on that but surely not which um
which reminds me i have been debating so i've got
a shining fate etb that i got at target like a
number like maybe last year something for like
the 35 dollars you know it's on sale right
the target on sale etv shining fates and last time
i looked that was going for like over a hundred
which kind of blow my mind a little bit debating
whether or not to flip it just because i don't
plan on doing anything with it i'm just gonna
sit on it i don't know do you should just open it
about it's modern no because i'm not like you i'm
not like you but i'll send it over there to you
i should have brought it with me when
you were in chicago why didn't i do
that i should have just brought all
the stuff that i needed you to open
i need to open up some strix haven i don't
know if any of you guys bought strix haven
uh magic the gathering set but you did
okay so did you hit anything really good
okay i mean i really enjoyed it it's just that
those study collectors packs are so expensive
um yeah that is crazy yeah i've got they're
in they're all in that box over there i
gotta go through them again but did you like the
alt-art the japanese altar yeah that looks sick
yeah they were really really cool i really enjoyed
those oh yeah those are those are definitely fun i
need i need to open them every time i go to target
if i see one of those like half it's not even like
a full draft box it's like one of those half boxes
where you get like 10 packs oh yeah yeah um i
didn't uh i didn't i bought some of the japanese
regular packs and then i bought like one or two
because those collectors packs are like 20 bucks
or whatever they were oh my god yeah like 20 22.
i just recently saw for one of the newer sets it
might be historic horizons or modern horizons too
they were going for something like 39 bucks it was
it was kind of crazy i i have some some like uh
collector packs from aquaria and i bought them at
15 and now they're going at something like 25 last
time i checked those those collector packs are can
sometimes be you know definitely worth that money
i don't know about openness but if you like
street saving then i would suggest gate ruler
because the like that kind of like feel like that
very just almost over-the-top artwork but it's
like very flashy like full beautiful holo
like almost that etched card like some of
those edged cards that are in strict saving and
magic like the artwork's pretty beautiful so
yeah yeah absolutely absolutely
well hey guys um this has been a good one this has
definitely been good um i think we hit a lot of
topics huh yeah yeah we we definitely hit a lot
of different places um i really like it i think
there's gonna be a lot of cool clips from this but
um what i will say is uh we should probably wrap
up so if you guys want to kind of let people
know where they can find you we can start there
all right okay i can go first uh
yes so you can find me on instagram
my computer's lagging too so like you started and
i start then you start so it's weird but go ahead
no no no you go
okay if i cut this out jess at the end
uh so you can find me on instagram um
my card account is first edition pokemon cards
um and you can find me on there and then my main
instagram which i keep forgetting
the name which is super productive
let's see uh that one is just that one's
just my name james damon and then nine at
the end and you can find me on there but
i don't post any cars in the main one but
you see pictures of purse you know
the dog um he's cutie what do you want
he's definitely a cutie i'll tell you
connor sweet well you guys can find me
roc rock pokemon that's for rochester where i'm
from not the thing you find in the ground roc
pokemon on instagram and also on youtube where
you can find my market monday videos where i just
kind of talk about a part of the part of the hobby
or or a different piece of investing uh strategy
or or thought process so um yeah instagram
and youtube is what i do connor rock pokemon
thanks for having us on jess this is awesome hell
yeah no i appreciate y'all coming on so we're
gonna have to do another marathon great probably
you know i don't know i'm thinking maybe october
or maybe when celebrations comes out that'll be
really cool just see where things are at because
it's possible it could be totally different
but yeah anyways well i appreciate you guys
well the slab game released oh my god team rocket
blasting off with the speed of light oh my gosh
we need to seriously i'm gonna find you
a mouth mask i really am oh my god i am
so yeah i don't think i own one even
meowth card anymore even though i
should i don't think i do i can't remember
but we'll send you guys we'll send you some
anyways y'all i appreciate it um have a good night
and hey y'all too see you on ig bye thanks guys